Interview by Renata Espinosa

Once upon a time, at the dawn of the 21st century, art and music and fashion and dot com money were colliding in New York City, which had finally come out of its ‘90s recession funk. It seemed like anything was possible, and the boundaries between art and commerce were blurring at an ever-increasing rate. Being creative and making money were not mutually exclusive activities. Art fed off fashion and vice versa, and no one was accused of “selling out.” There were pop art collectives like Fischerspooner dazzling the art world and garnering corporate sponsorships from Levi’s, and Threeasfour - then As Four - who designed costumes once for Fischerspooner in the early days - were the darlings of a new indie spirit in New York fashion. Hype was the machine that fueled this new creative revolution. Then September 11th happened and the bubble burst. Art for art’s sake needed a smarter business plan. As Four turned into Threeasfour in 2005 over creative differences with Kai Kuhne as to what direction to take the label after the party was over. The first collection post-split by the remaining members - Gabi Asfour, Adi Gil and Ange Donhauser - consisted of couture pieces made entirely out of denim. It wasn’t a traditional denim collection by any means, but it did signal a new era for the label with fusion of art and commerce. While not dispensing with the three dimensional pattern structure that forms the basis of their reconstructed “basics,” Threeasfour’s designs increasingly appeal to a customer base outside the confines of the elite fashion pack. Perhaps most significantly in that regard, this past spring they were a part of the Gap and the CFDA/Vogue Fashion Fund’s white shirt project, designing two versions of the iconic wardrobe staple. Here, we sat down with Gabi and Ange to talk about the evolution of the revolution.

Blend: It's quite an incredible time for you as designers. Your identity as arbiters of avant-garde fashion design has evolved. Now you're also doing well as business people. You've also received mainstream recognition from the CFDA and Vogue, and mass market exposure via Gap. How did it all transpire?

Gabi: When we started, we were somehow having a good time. We were being experimental, we were playing with fashion, then photography, styling and makeup. All kinds of things. We used to have girls here [in the studio] every day to style them and make a whole image of them. At the same time, we were doing this collection that was as experimental as possible. That was As Four. Then after the breakup, we wanted to adjust to the market. So the denim was an interesting thing. We thought we could speak to a lot of different people. We had a whole idea of taking the denim as a fabric, because it’s accessible, it’s comfortable and an understandable and universal fabric.

Ange: It’s very American.

Gabi: We put our styles from before into it, but then something completely different came out. To us, it was the idea to outfit yourself from head-to-toe with different kinds of denim. It’s like the modern suit.

Ange: It’s a uniform. It was a challenge to us, because none of us actually ever wore denim.

Gabi: We hated denim.

Ange: Not hated, but we didn’t really wear it. We were not denim kind of people. But we said, “Let’s do denim our way.” But then after that experience, we realized we didn’t really fit into the denim market, because denim really is all about different washes, or whatever you’re doing with the pockets. It’s a completely different universe.

Gabi: We even went to the factories in L.A. and met the big five denim moguls.

Blend: What was their reaction?

Gabi: They were amazed, but they didn’t understand us at all. They said, “No way are you going to find a factory that will be able to do this.”

Blend: What was about it that they didn’t think could be done?

Gabi: With our pants and jackets, the patterns are particularly advanced. The way that they do it, is the front first and then back and then they add the pockets. There’s a certain uniformity to it. We were just thinking of it as another fabric where you have a stitch, and that’s it.

Ange: We offered them high-end design and it happened to be the fabric of denim. For us, it did not really match. But it was a great experience for us. Since then we have created our own line similar to denim, which is something that comes back in each collection. But we don’t call it a denim line. It’s all a part of the same thing.

Gabi: We brought that into the collection because everybody wears denim. Now we have it every season, along with the jersey that we started using. We upped the quality of the fabric and the manufacturing of it, so it has become this super designer item. That’s what makes us the most money, about 60% of our business. It helps a lot because people really want it and they keep asking for it. And we wear it as well.

Ange: When you enter the denim market, you actually end up in denim retail scenario. We did not fit in at all, because our pieces needed to be specially displayed.

Blend: You couldn’t just fold them up and stack them on a shelf.

Ange: We needed to put them on a mount, or on a hanger, and it just did not work. It was confusing.

Gabi: We had an egalitarian vision of, “Okay, now we’re going to speak to everybody.”

Blend: Why was this so important to you?

Gabi: Because we believe everybody is beautiful. We’re not really about just a certain niche of people. We love everybody. We think everybody deserves to look beautiful and to wear what we are offering. With the denim, it didn’t really work, but…

Ange: We are definitely the kind of people who can cater to everybody.

Gabi: Then along came the Gap, and it really worked. We made two styles for them that were super wearable and super us. They didn’t construct them the way that we wanted, but still, the idea was there. And people really bought it.

Ange: It sold out.

Gabi: It means that we can speak to a huge market. You have to educate the market that you’re speaking to. They might need a lot of advertising, maybe.

Blend: Will you do something like the Gap again?

Gabi: Yes, I think it’s interesting to be generous with what you do and make, and not just hold onto it and cover it up. People copy us all over the world, and we like it. It means that the idea translates, and it works.

Ange: I mean, a few years ago you might not have liked it, but you have to get used to it. There’s nothing you can do.

Blend: For you guys, maybe, it’s more about furthering a vision of design. People are more receptive now to wearing something that looks a little bit more unique.

Gabi: We’ve already influenced the world of design, but it’s nice because it’s not so in your face. It speaks to couture people all the way down to the denim market. It’s great. It means that our ideas work. It’s super flattering to us. We’re doing something right. That’s success for us, that in the last ten years we have changed fashion.

Ange: But of course it is a little bit of bummer, say, when someone like Diesel, for example, completely rips you off. Then you’re like, “Hmmmm.”

Gabi: We want to grow the business in the right way. So we’re approaching fashion from the business side, without losing any of the design. It’s a nice challenge to balance it out, to say, okay, what is the customer looking for? What do you have to offer? And to figure out what really works in the market.

Ange: Without losing our identity within that, too.

Gabi: We’re getting there.

Blend: What kinds of adjustments have you had to make?

Gabi: You know, like if someone says an armhole is too big, you have to cover the breasts. Or the neckline is too low or the thing is too asymmetric and it needs to be a little more balanced. Things like this. So we say, okay, these are things that are possible to do. It doesn’t really hurt us as long as nothing touches the design. I think it’s interesting for designers to have limitations, certain boundaries. We realized we don’t lose anything by it. It’s even more accessible. I think we have achieved we wanted to, or we are on the way…you should never say, “Oh, I’ve done it,” but the main thing is that we’re on the way.

Ange: We’ve come a long way.

Gabi: Evolution is the most exciting thing. Once you get to a place and you stay there, then it’s not interesting. You might as well die. There’s no life.

Ange: With the recognition from Vogue and Gap, it was definitely a milestone. It has opened doors and people are paying attention finally. But we keep going no matter what.

Gabi: We have gotten a lot of support. They really like us. We realize, too, we like them, so there’s no problem. We can hang out with the people from Purple magazine to people from Vogue.

Ange: It doesn’t change anything in the way we are, or what we do. We’re always going to be us.

Gabi: It goes back to us being universal. We’re not really about one niche of people, or one group of people. We’re open-minded.

Ange: We don’t just dress socialites. Our clothes are for open minded, sophisticated people all over the world.

Gabi: You don’t have to be from a certain class to be an open-minded person.

Ange: Of course, you have to be able to afford it!

Blend: I guess the way a lot of labels get around that is that if you can’t afford the dress, there are other products available. Maybe you’d buy a bag or a pair of shoes.

Gabi: We have that, but at the same time, for us, it has to be done by us so that the impact and the energy that we’re giving is the same. It doesn’t have to become a regular thing that you see everywhere in the marketplace. A t-shirt, for example, that is not your regular t-shirt that you’d find in the Gap, is super challenging to design. Same as making a couture dress.

Blend: Has New York been a good place to nurture the label?

Gabi: It’s the only place. It’s the most open-minded city in the world. It has the most opportunities, because it doesn’t discriminate. You can be whatever you want to be. As long as you are yourself, you’re accepted here.

Ange: From the beginning, when we started doing things, there was hardly anything around except for the big guys. And people always would say, “Oh, why don’t you move to Paris,” but we said, no, we believe in this city. We need to change things here. It’s so easy to go to Paris, every idiot can go there!

Gabi: It’s also about your life and how you’re living everyday. Paris is depressing to me.

Ange: It’s just not us.

Gabi: So why should we do that?

Blend: Do you think it’s become easier for a young designer to live and work here?

Gabi: It’s harder and easier. I think anybody now can make a collection if you have the right connections and right financing. It’s a formula. You just follow it, and you do it. You make friends with the models and the editors and you have somebody in PR and you can make anything.

Ange: Fashion is a big business. Now during New York fashion week, there are more and more people showing. All kinds of people with money and every Hollywood star has a collection.

Blend: Does that concern you at all?

Ange: Why would it, why should it? We are completely untouchable, and what we do doesn’t even come close to that. I wish there was more support in the end for the young creatives.

Gabi: That’s true, I wish there were more support for young people who don’t have the finances or connections, whatever it is. We come across some really talented people. They cannot do it.

Blend: What are the directions that you’re moving into now?

Gabi: More and more us. To become more and more yourself. The most honest you can be. That’s the direction. It’s the only direction we can go.
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